Icebergs, Implosions, and the Gremlin Who Fell In Love

What makes the Titanic disaster so uniquely mesmerizing even after 113 years? According to Michael, a self-proclaimed Titanic historian who joins us in this episode, it's the perfect three-act tragedy unfolding over just 2 hours and 40 minutes—from the initial complacency to final panic, all playing out on "a well-lit, 900-foot wide stage" with every dramatic element imaginable.

We dive deep into our cultural fascination with maritime disasters, comparing the Titanic's tragic sinking with the recent OceanGate Titan submersible implosion. The contrast is stark and revealing. While the Titanic faced a perfect storm of unlikely circumstances, the Titan disaster emerges as a case study in negligence and hubris. Through recent documentaries, we piece together the troubling portrait of Stockton Rush, OceanGate's CEO described by former employees as "a narcissist bordering on psychopath" who systematically ignored safety warnings and fired dissenting voices.

The most chilling aspect? Everyone seemed to know the Titan was destined to fail. Former employees recounted hearing the same disturbing popping and creaking sounds that were captured in footage before the final, fatal dive. Yet Rush persisted, using a PlayStation controller for navigation and unconventional materials that experts repeatedly warned were unsuitable for deep-sea exploration.

Beyond maritime disasters, Michael shares hilariously cringeworthy "gremlin stories" about his lovesick Facebook mishap and a Spider-Man-inspired gymnastics fail that left him flat on his back at a college party. These moments of vulnerability and self-deprecating humor remind us that even Titanic historians have their less-than-perfect human moments.

Whether you're a history buff, fascinated by tales of hubris, or just looking for a laugh, this episode offers a thoughtful exploration of why certain disasters capture our collective imagination and what they reveal about human nature. Listen now and discover why some tragedies continue to resonate long after the waters have closed over them.

Need advice? Want to share your own gremlin story? Email us at EMILYTOGREMILYPOD@GMAIL.COM and follow on Instagram and TikTok @emilytopgremilypod.

Transcript

Introductions and Social Dynamics

Speaker 1 0:12

all right , cheers , my first male guest and we're here with michael . How are ?

Speaker 3 0:20

you I'm great , were I'm fucking awesome , I mean it's tough , but , um , I feel like it's in , like my I'm like programmed in my muscle memory . When someone's out , how are you , you want to automatically say I'm great , I mean yeah , I mean . How often do people actually answer that question ?

Speaker 1 0:40

I mean sometimes people trauma dump .

Speaker 3 0:42

Yeah , like they kind of give you shit for asking the question .

Speaker 1 0:46

No , I mean like they're like oh my God , actually I'm terrible . So this is what happened and this happened . I've had that before , Not on here .

Speaker 3 0:53

Of the people who've done it . Can you give me like a pie chart of ? Well , there's only two . What percentage men ? What percentage girls ? Why did I get into the pie chart ? Just give me a pie chart , and in this one the men are blue , the girls are pink .

Speaker 1 1:10

What percentage of that pie chart would be blue Right now , 100 .

Speaker 3 1:13

100% girls trauma dump . Sure , well , I kind of just did , you did Outside , but I mean , it wasn't trauma dumping .

Speaker 1 1:20

I actually asked you like questions .

Speaker 3 1:23

Yeah , it's dumping , I actually asked you like questions .

Speaker 1 1:24

Yeah , it's trauma dumping if you just are generally being like hey , how are you like in passing ?

Speaker 3 1:28

they're like actually I am terrible the person who is doing the trauma . Dumping is being innocent dumping . The is , in a sense , being disingenuous , because they know what the person means with hey . Say hey , how are you ? So they're kind of like , almost kind of ruining that person's day , or maybe they just need to vent . Yeah , but yeah , there's two sides , because then you would be in the right to say well , you asked .

Speaker 1 1:56

That's true .

Speaker 3 1:57

It's like well , I didn't really ask . It's like well , then , you're yeah .

Speaker 1 2:00

Then you were being disingenuous . Yeah ,

Memory and Neurodiversity Discussion

Speaker 1 2:03

exactly Then you were being disingenuous .

Speaker 3 2:04

Yeah , exactly you should have just said hi and moved on . I know we have known each other since actually early June 2016 . My memory is impeccable .

Speaker 1 2:15

Are you serious ?

Speaker 3 2:16

That my memory is impeccable .

Speaker 1 2:17

No , are you serious ? That's the date .

Speaker 3 2:21

Early June 2nd , I had just gotten back from the boundary , the boundary waters in minnesota . Oh and uh . Yeah , I just remember that wow it was right on the canadian border it was like rain man um , it didn't .

Speaker 1 2:35

Oh , the autistic guy no , yeah , I'm not saying you are .

Speaker 3 2:39

I thought you meant did I make it rain the boundary water ? Because I I was talking about like , like , like the nature of it . It was a beautiful place about your memory . Oh god , yes yeah oh god , yeah , it's weird . If you talk to any of my friends growing up , they'll I mean , I like memorized magazine articles do you think you have like a photographic memory ? Um photographic .

Speaker 1 3:00

Is that like , where , like you remember , like , if you read something you can like pretty much memorize the entire thing I memorize scripts pretty quick , memorize dialogue pretty quick .

Speaker 3 3:10

Um , people , it's weird , though , because the brains are complicated , like people's , like a , like a face , of course , but names I can be rough with . I won't retain names , well , but events , things that happened , things that were said , or even , like my high school football program , I can tell you the height and weights of all the players .

Speaker 2 3:35

Oh , wow , yeah .

Speaker 3 3:37

Stats really weird with stats . We talked about what I might be on the spectrum , you and I .

Speaker 1 3:44

We did have that conversation .

Speaker 3 3:45

I asked chat GPT , what does it mean when I do that ? Because when I'm really thinking , when I'm really trying to think of what to say or analyze it , I do it Like a little tick . Yeah , it's interesting , I don't know . It kind of started recently , in the last year or two , but there's that . Right now I'm giving clues as to why I think I might be that .

Speaker 2 4:10

Okay , on the spectrum .

Speaker 3 4:11

Yeah , because you asked you never asked . Do you want to talk about Titan ?

Speaker 1 4:20

Okay . Yeah , that is why you are here . Oh , by the way , we have a virgin mojito today . I have to talk about episode drink because you know that's the format . Maybe that's my on the spectrum thing . I have to do things in order , but yeah .

Speaker 3 4:35

Yeah .

Speaker 1 4:36

I'm OCD which I do believe is like a form of it . But you know , I got other things too , I think in that regard .

Speaker 3 4:48

We click in the same environment , but you can have animals in the same environment that don't get along .

Speaker 1 4:59

But they're still . You say , we don't get along .

Speaker 3 5:00

But they're still from that climate . I struggle , I'll need some time . I'll have a better comeback when I'm in the shower , all right .

Speaker 1 5:08

Well , you can hit me back up later , hot water enhances creativity .

Speaker 3 5:12

So have you ever thought about you have like a deep , cool thought in the shower ? I think that has something to do with it .

Speaker 1 5:19

Yeah , I usually have like all my like fights in Okay .

Speaker 2 5:22

And it's like two days later .

Speaker 3 5:23

And I was like shit .

Speaker 1 5:24

All right , Well , whatever .

Speaker 3 5:25

Yeah .

Speaker 1 5:26

Yeah , all right . Well , virgin Mojito , because you said you get hung over after two beers . And I didn't want to ruin your day . Slash weekend ,

The Fascination with Titanic

Speaker 1 5:35

so Virgin Mojito .

Speaker 3 5:36

You said you get hung over every day . Slash weekend .

Speaker 1 5:39

I didn't want to ruin your day slash your weekend .

Speaker 3 5:42

Oh , oh , oh , okay , okay , because you know , I know , you have stuff to do .

Speaker 1 5:45

But yeah , we are here because you and I are really big history nerds , uh-huh , and we love Titanic .

Speaker 3 5:51

I'm smiling .

Speaker 1 5:52

I can see . Yeah , but thank you for telling the people who aren't watching . Oh , yeah , not . Yeah , this goes on YouTube but not everyone watches . Yeah , but yeah , we're here to talk about Titanic because it's a great movie and an interesting history fact , and then , in turn , the Titan sub , because there's all these new documentaries and he is so much more prepared than me . I told him when he got here I was kind of nervous to do this with him because I was like he's going to be so much smarter than me . So I'm just kind of here for the ride at this point .

Speaker 3 6:26

Yeah , you know . Let's be honest . Yeah , I might be more prepared than you , but that's not why I know more about Titanic than you .

Speaker 1 6:35

I mean , you've been like deep you said you were like deep in the knowledge and like you like to go on like forums and websites and whatnot . Yeah , I can like hold my own against like a Titanic historian , deep in the knowledge and like you like to go on like forums and websites and whatnot .

Speaker 3 6:45

Yeah , I can like hold my own against like a Titanic historian , like if him and I were in the same room , it would be on like an equal level .

Speaker 1 6:51

Did you ever think about like becoming a historian then ?

Speaker 3 6:54

Um , Hmm .

Speaker 1 6:56

Especially with your like well , kind of amazing memory .

Speaker 3 6:59

Yeah , kind of in in that direction , not with I mean , I don't want to get off track , we'll do it later , but kind of in that direction with tape measure home runs , which is very specific I don't know what that is . It's a home run that goes really far .

Speaker 3 7:12

Oh okay , like a tape measure , because if a home run back in the day , oh , that went really far , someone pull up the tape measure let's see how many feet that home run traveled . So it's a very uh , it's a very specific subject in baseball history . Um , not many of them , perhaps , because not many people care . Um , I think there is a large audience for it . So , yeah , no to your point . I would be interested in that . Yeah , but no , I'd never got into into like making money off being a Titanic historian . I wasn't even sure where that would start . I'm sure that's a . I'm sure there's not many very spots for that . Like it's not . Like working at Ralph's it's not as available as that . Like I'm a Titanic historian , can you pay me the demand Right ? There we go .

Speaker 1 8:03

Well , have you ever been , because you're from Indiana . Yeah , so have you ever been to the Titanic Museum that's in Branson , missouri ?

Speaker 3 8:12

No , I haven't been to any of the Titanic Museums .

Speaker 1 8:15

None of them .

Speaker 3 8:16

That's why my voice dropped just how it dropped , because that's a shame .

Speaker 1 8:20

Yeah , I feel like it's colored with shame . Well , it's not shame , it's shame . Yeah , it's colored with shame , you . Well , it's not shame , it's just , you haven't done it yet . Okay , you have time .

Speaker 3 8:27

It's not going anywhere if I were a dog , I think I'd be a husky . I think I'm dramatic I know , yes , I know you've seen those videos like a husky getting their nails and like going nuts yeah yeah , yeah , I could see that hudson the husky , hudson , the husky .

Speaker 1 8:43

There you go . I'll change that as your name in my phone , for sure all right , they're sweet dogs though they're very sweet . Okay , go ahead . All right , you know what ? I'm kind of just gonna let you take it away , tell me and tell the audience about titanic . What do you want to talk about Titanic , titan , what's your take on that ?

Speaker 3 9:09

I have something to say about Titanic in general that came to me last night . Okay , About the why , the fascination , In fact the one . I don't know if it was the Titan documentary on Max or Netflix , one of those two , but someone said like the three most well-known words across the planet .

Speaker 1 9:27

That was in the Netflix one . I just watched it .

Speaker 3 9:29

Okay , yeah .

Speaker 1 9:30

It was .

Speaker 3 9:31

God , Coca-Cola .

Speaker 1 9:32

Yeah , and Titanic .

Speaker 3 9:33

Wow , and so that kind of reinforced me thinking like , why the fascination ? And you hear that question asked a lot and many times it's kind of a vague answer that I would rather it be unpacked , but it's like it's the human element and , yeah , absolutely true , but there's more to it than that , because there are plenty of events that carry that , but don't have this aura .

Speaker 2 9:55

And .

Speaker 3 9:55

I wrote this down From the time it struck the iceberg to when it sank . That's two hours and 40 minutes . That's the length of like a long play or like a long movie .

Speaker 1 10:08

But like sync . That's two hours and 40 minutes . That's the length of like a long play or like a long movie , but like not too long of a movie . There are plenty of good movies .

Speaker 3 10:12

Two hours and 40 minutes , but it's at the length of the actual titanic movie and it was done on purpose . No , titanic movie was three hours and 15 minutes , but we're gonna get to that later because that's part of a joke I told on the message board okay because my screen name was iceberg boss .

Speaker 3 10:22

All right , we'll do that later , okay , but no , um , I was gonna . Well , I had notes , but yeah , I think it's important I get this right what I'm saying , um it and , and just like a movie , emily , it had three acts act one , complacency , act two , confusion . Act three , panic . So from the time it struck the Berg to when it sank below the water in the North Atlantic two hours and 40 minutes later . It's three acts . And then I got more into like the play , a theatrical thought of it , like a Broadway , like it was a well-lit , 900-foot wide stage . You had a , I mean , and you had everything . If I got chills , you had . As far as like an entertaining play in the tragedy , you had everything .

Speaker 3 11:11

Like you you even had a fucking band playing near my God to the as she was dying . Um , you had farewells to each other uh , farewells on the boat deck . You had romance and goodbyes . You had rockets firing a thousand feet in the black sky asking for help .

Speaker 3 11:30

The ocean itself that night , by all accounts , was unusually calm and flat right . In fact , a sailor , a , uh , navy guy who survived , who's a veteran at sea for 40 years , said he'd never seen the ocean so calm . It's like a pond . So that adds another element to it . Yeah , and that in itself is why the iceberg was hard to spot anyways . But , um , and as the angle of the ship increased , it's just so symbolic , so did doubt , um , so that's where I think it is . I , I mean , it really

Analyzing the OceanGate Titan Disaster

Speaker 3 12:05

is the human . It's kind of like a what would you do ? We all like watching movies and plays where the question is what would you do ? And we get that with the Titanic disaster , absolutely . And you have heroes and you have cowards , you have the truth coming out about somebody , because every guy would say , oh , like I , let the woman go , but then it's like Ooh , let me get in there .

Speaker 1 12:27

Then you got the Billy Zane character . He was , like you know , kicking people out .

Speaker 3 12:30

Yeah , yeah , yeah , um , uh , you'll swamp us . Yeah , that he was saying that , uh , that we're going to get swamped yeah .

Speaker 2 12:51

That's where .

Speaker 3 12:51

I think the fascination is and like a movie or a play , you need a good location . Right , that's cosmetically a beautiful location . Right , it's a huge , enormous , huge , enormous , beautiful , rich , a luxurious ship . It was the most luxurious ship of its time by far yeah and um uh yeah . So that came to me about like um , all I just said there , I know is scattered , but all I just said there is really what it is . It's that .

Speaker 1 13:24

That's the fascination .

Speaker 3 13:26

That's the fascination , and just like the ironies .

Speaker 2 13:30

Right , yeah , it did everything it wasn't supposed to do .

Speaker 3 13:34

Yeah , and it was its first voyage you have man versus nature . That era of technology was when we were making a lot of progress .

Speaker 2 13:47

Yeah .

Speaker 3 13:47

And so a man had a lot of faith in technology and its triumph . So it stood for that , and a survivor , first class Jack there said something like there was peace in the air , an aura of we're okay , Everything's great . It was like a dream . There was peace in the air , an aura of we're okay , Everything's great . It was like a dream . But then when the Titanic sank it was like a startling wake up , like the world came alive kind of thing .

Speaker 3 14:13

It really is kind of a before and after of that era as well as technology and it kind of stands for people were never certain again . It became a metaphor . For Christ's sake . Yeah , people were never certain again and I think metaphor for Christ's sake , yeah , people were never certain again , and I think it is the biggest disaster in peacetime , which I think is another way of saying like a ship that sank but it wasn't in the middle of a war , like a cause of a war .

Speaker 1 14:37

It was not in a war . Yeah , yeah , correct , oh , okay , oh , I didn't know that .

Speaker 3 14:39

Oh yeah .

Speaker 1 14:40

Okay , so you just asked that question . What do you think you would have done in the Titanic if you were a passenger , and all that ?

Speaker 3 14:49

Well , the nerd in me right now is going to answer .

Speaker 2 14:53

Yeah .

Speaker 3 14:55

On the starboard side , First Officer William Murdoch was in charge of lowering the lifeboats and his policy was women and children first , and men if there are still spots available .

Speaker 2 15:07

Yeah .

Speaker 3 15:07

Charles Light Tyler . The second officer on the port side was by the book woman and children only .

Speaker 2 15:13

Yeah .

Speaker 3 15:13

In fact , John Jacob Astor asked him if he could get on with his wife .

Speaker 1 15:17

Because she was pregnant .

Speaker 3 15:19

Madeline yeah , and he was the richest man on the ship . Yeah , he was worth $100 million , which was a lot of money then and now Back then .

Speaker 1 15:29

It's good money now .

Speaker 3 15:31

It's okay , money now For inflation .

Speaker 1 15:33

Yeah , he would have been like $2.8 billion yeah .

Speaker 3 15:36

Yeah , anyways , what was his family ? I ? Think his father or grandfather was like fur traders , and then it was railroads . Anyways , he asked if he could join and Charles Lighttower said no , sir , no men are allowed on these boats until this and that .

Speaker 2 15:55

Yeah .

Speaker 3 15:56

He didn't challenge or complain .

Speaker 1 15:57

Yeah , he just let it go Ben .

Speaker 3 15:58

Guggenheim didn't even try to get on a lifeboat .

Speaker 2 16:01

Yeah .

Speaker 3 16:01

He was the one who said we're dressing our best and we're prepared to go down as a gentleman . Yes , yeah , that was cool , oh , that was tasteful . I thought that was good writing , but um , anyway , do you think that's what you would do ?

Speaker 3 16:16

Ask for a brandy . Yeah , what would you do ? Um , um , I would . If I'm there , then I know what's going to happen . A lot of people early on didn't know it was going to sink , so like I would have done my best to get as many people in the lifeboats to fill up and I would have gone down to third class to help get them up Right . As far as them being locked down intentionally , it's not quite known . It's not as clear cut as it was in the movie , like no , you're not coming . Yeah , in the movie it was very cold-hearted , just yes , it might have been . It might have been by mistake , because it's not like the ship had a speaker system , yeah , or an alarm system .

Speaker 1 16:54

It was just people running into the it was word of mouth .

Speaker 3 16:58

You're knocking on doors and getting people to get their get their life vests on , and and the third class was far down there , in a different part of the ship , and there's a lot of confusion . There's a lot of immigrants , a lot of people who don't even speak English , and it's worth noting that most of the officers , if not all of them , did not know the ship was going to sink . So in the movie , how it's portrayed , with them holding them down there like they like they , it kind of gives an impression that oh , no , like the ship's gonna sink and you guys are staying down here . No , uh , even the officers on board didn't know it was gonna sink .

Speaker 3 17:33

So they were just trying to like control the panic and they were trying to keep it separate because third class can't go up to first class . So like like in some people's mind it was was just like a lifeboat drill , or just like a lot of officers thought we're going to fill the lifeboats halfway but then they'll come back later .

Speaker 2 17:55

Yeah .

Speaker 3 17:57

So there's a lot of evidence out there that most of the officers did not know it was going to sink , which I think is a mistake .

Speaker 2 18:04

Yeah .

Speaker 3 18:04

Like they should have known , because then they would have felt that the life boats up more all the way .

Speaker 2 18:09

Well , you would think um .

Speaker 3 18:10

I would have gone down and gotten people up to the boat deck and helped with just getting getting getting as many women and children in the life boats . Like , like I do stand by that . Like I think that's right , yeah , because , uh , kids are kids and the females are the ones who , um gave birth to them .

Speaker 3 18:31

So I think , um it , I don't know , like it's just what you do , right it's just what you do yeah , that's kind of funny , like like , if you ask me to really explain it from like a logical perspective , kids is like that's obvious , right , um , yeah , I , yeah . If it was the other way , it'd be like a men and the women stand here and drown .

Speaker 1 18:56

I don't know that it just seems more cold .

Speaker 3 18:58

Well , yeah , yeah like what are your thoughts on that ?

Stockton Rush: Narcissism and Negligence

Speaker 1 19:01

I mean , yeah , I think women and children first as well .

Speaker 3 19:04

We both agree , but I wonder yeah , I don't know . I guess that's kind of like a moral dilemma , because Well , I think a woman carries more value because she can reproduce and make the world go around . I mean , I think if you get down to the primitive aspect of it , oh , you think that's like the reason why it it's women and children ?

Speaker 1 19:27

I always thought it was they did it . It was like kind of like old school , because it was passed down for sure because men are burly and they can handle themselves and they can take care of themselves , and women are like feeble and feminine and we don't know what we're doing . I thought that's what it's more kind of that could , could be it too , and children are children , so they're just innocent and they need to be taken care of .

Speaker 3 19:46

It's probably a rule on all ships . In the case of this , that point is moot because the water is freezing .

Speaker 2 19:52

Right .

Speaker 3 19:53

But yeah , if the water is not , then yeah you talk about . Well , like a man can , he needs , he can be in the water and swim .

Speaker 2 20:00

Right .

Speaker 3 20:05

But the woman should not be struggling in the water . She should be safe in the boat , because you , because you protect them , yeah , um , yeah , but that , but that's irrelevant . When the , when the it's 28 degree water and you're in the middle of nowhere .

Speaker 1 20:13

Yeah , yeah um .

Speaker 3 20:15

What did you think of titan ?

Speaker 1 20:17

oh my god , okay . So when it ? I remember when it first happened , I we were my boyfriend and I , we were on our anniversary trip and it like consumed . I was like obsessed with what was going on and not like in the moment and paying attention to what I should have been paying attention to Because , like I remember , the news was going on and on about how they thought they were still alive and then it became it was like I remember there was a countdown , like in , like in the corner , like a ticker of how much time they had left of oxygen and in my head I was like these poor people , oh my god , they have six hours left .

Speaker 1 20:51

Oh my god , oh my , it just like it , like panicked me almost , like in a weird way . And then , of course , we find out what happened . They , you know , imploded and we'd been searching them for them for four days for no reason . It was wild . But then in watching the documentaries now that just recently came out , you realize what a terrible guy Stockton Rush was . I , like you , already kind of Mad prick vibes .

Speaker 3 21:21

His resting face is prick face , you feel me .

Speaker 1 21:25

Yes , he is a guy who was born into privilege , married even into more privilege and had no care in the world because he thought he was it . It's like he was playing God .

Speaker 3 21:41

I think he wanted more than anything . He wanted to be it Like they made a reference . He wanted to be it , you know , like like they made a reference .

Speaker 1 21:47

He wanted to be a bezos or yeah , he wanted to be . He wanted to be in the same class as Elon . Musk and Jeff Bezos and it's like like he just he had so much . He was a guy who had so much money , who shouldn't have had money to begin with , but he had so much money that he just disregarded human life , including his own . But it's , it's wild . There I said okay , I wrote it down because I was like , hold on , he's coming , so prepared , I need to have something yeah , yeah okay , so the guy I got , I got scared there it is all right , tony neeson , who is the director of engineering .

Speaker 1 22:22

This was from the netflix documentary um titan , the ocean gate submersible disaster second one yeah , yeah , he said he called stock stockton quote a narcissist bordering on a psychopath , which I thought like kind of just summed it up in and of itself . He gave not one flying fuck about anybody or anyone's opinions . If you counteracted him and said , hey , I don't think this is a good idea , he just fired you and disregarded anyone's opinion other than his own or anyone who was kissing his ass .

Speaker 3 22:58

I have written Stockton psycho , prick vibes More narcissist , less psycho , but it's still there . Yeah , I think it had to be . It was either delusion or denial about the safety .

Speaker 1 23:16

I think it's both .

Speaker 3 23:18

Denial for sure , because he really thought that it wasn't going to matter . Ambition blinds . Yeah , you hear , like the one , like , so we watched two . The one on Netflix we just saw , yeah , that had a lot more of which I like to hear quotes or what he's saying , and you get to hear him speak .

Speaker 2 23:45

Yeah .

Speaker 3 23:46

When that guy came in with his concerns , defensive .

Speaker 1 23:50

Immediate .

Speaker 3 23:52

A defensive teenager . Yes , he was cutting them off . This guy's an engineer . He was very smart , very qualified , and he voiced his concerns .

Speaker 3 24:03

Oh , the guy who was counting he voiced his concerns in a professional way too , for sure , as safe as he could , his concerns . Oh , the guy who was counter he voiced his concerns in a professional way too For sure , as safe as he could . Yeah , and it wasn't good enough . And it's like when you have a belief , like , say , I have a strong belief , and you , emily , attack that belief , you aren't attacking me , but because of that belief , like that belief is like part of my body , yeah , in a way you're attacking me .

Speaker 1 24:24

Yeah .

Speaker 3 24:25

And I think like it was very personal . He has people around him who would not push back , who wouldn't challenge , or , if they did , they're fired . Yeah , like .

Speaker 1 24:35

He was just . He's a guy who is always used to be told yes , so if you say no to him , he doesn't know what to do with himself .

Speaker 3 24:43

Yeah , and you mentioned earlier I wanted to unpack it . His wife came from wealth .

Speaker 1 24:48

Yes .

Speaker 3 24:49

What Do you remember ?

Speaker 1 24:50

Yeah , so she is the descendants of Ida and Isadora Strauss , and they were the old couple in the bed in the movie Titanic .

Speaker 3 24:59

Yeah .

Speaker 1 25:00

And they were the founders of Macy's .

Speaker 3 25:03

Wow , correct .

Speaker 1 25:04

I know things .

Speaker 3 25:05

Yeah , yeah , yeah , I think yeah , it was a famous story because she apparently I don't know why it was in the final cut , but I mean three hours 15 minutes .

Speaker 1 25:14

Yeah , you got to trim stuff yeah .

Speaker 3 25:17

But I think I saw an outtake and it was Like a deleted scene . Yeah , and it was . She got into it and then got back on the boat deck . Oh okay , and at that time it was clear that the ship was going to sink as well .

Speaker 2 25:30

Mm-hmm .

Speaker 3 25:31

So those are the real sad ones . Yeah , Like anybody getting into a lifeboat after see After 1.30 , knew they're getting in and they're going to watch the ship sink . I do have something I want to say . I do believe what these people are saying about Stockton , the people who worked for them . They are still talking about it with the luxury of hindsight it's after the fact and they're saying things and talking about things about a guy who's not currently there to defend himself . It is still believe them , but it is much more convenient .

Speaker 1 26:10

So I do wonder , from an embellishing standpoint , um , but like the writing was on the wall even even before okay , I had this , or I had this thought , and then I kind of saw it on tiktok which , honestly , like I should just cite tiktok as like the majority of my right information because I go to like tiktok university yeah but someone said like do you think he was like kind of on , like maybe like a suicide mission , but it kind of murder suicide , because it was like he knew it was going to fail and he didn't want to live in the failure .

Speaker 1 26:48

And then he just happened to take four other people down with him and collected their money on the way out . You know , like what do you ? What do you think the psychology is behind him ? He , he heard the pops . You hear it in all the footage that's been released , in all these documentaries . You hear the creaking and the pops . Hear it in all the footage that's been released . In all these documentaries you hear the creaking and the pops , which are terrifying , but it's he hears it and he still ignores it . Do you think he knew this is never going to happen and just decided to kind of go down with the ship ?

Speaker 3 27:16

um , I mean , if that's true , he really is a psycho , because there's , you know why not just go down by yourself ?

Speaker 1 27:22

13 year old on there and those other people , yeah , yeah , and he took their money before he he went . Yeah , you know um .

Speaker 3 27:30

The first one on max , kind of got into that that he was facing a bankruptcy and needed to cash in .

Speaker 1 27:40

But yeah , like I mean , it wasn't mentioned on the net . Yeah , he had gone for so long of this not working that finally he was just like no , we're going to do it . We're going to do it . That's why he got so defensive for any opposition .

Speaker 3 27:53

Yeah , I think because of his personality and , granted , I think people overuse the word narcissist , but I do think it applies to him and because it does , it is a sickness . He had put time and years and a lot of face time because he did seem to want fame , he seemed to like the camera time .

Speaker 1 28:16

He would contact news sources to be like hey , this is what we're doing , Want to come look ?

Speaker 3 28:19

Yeah , and the way he posed in the photos . He wanted to look like a steve jobs , like yeah , I don't , you know what I'm trying to say like I can see him talking to karen like , no , no , I want this angle . Or uh , this look , yeah , um , he would bring a lot of things back to him . When I heard him talking about what they had accomplished , I noticed that . So , yeah , it makes perfect sense , because the pain of failure or the pain of someone saying this is not going to work . We are shutting this down . That might he can't take that .

Speaker 1 28:49

And then that means all the people who said this isn't a good idea can say I told you so . I told you this five years ago .

Speaker 3 28:56

He doesn't want to face being wrong .

Speaker 1 28:59

Right .

Speaker 3 28:59

He would have to be in like a , and he would have to like face , you know , like a hearing Right and just be and look stupid doing it . He has too much ego for that . So I can totally get that he's thinking about his legacy .

Speaker 1 29:15

So well , now he's got a hell of a plan . At least I have a legacy .

Speaker 3 29:18

Well , what did the guy say ? It gave so . Well , at least I have a legacy . Well , what the guy say ?

Speaker 1 29:21

it gave me chills when he's like he won a fame , yeah and he got it , he got it and he got it .

Speaker 3 29:28

Yeah , I mean , he might have said the truthful part out loud right there . He won a fame and he got it Right . It's all disgusting when , like that one girl she was the engineer or she she was also yeah , well , like there was a few , one was an accountant .

Speaker 1 29:45

Yeah , she wanted her to steer it . She's like I'm an accountant . She's like an accountant . She's like I'm here .

Speaker 3 29:51

As time went on , more and more he started to be more and more qualified people left .

Speaker 1 29:56

Yeah , so he started to bump up people . Yeah , I know who you're talking about the blonde girl who she was . She started out as like a student at the university of washington and she started to kind of move her way up in the company and he was like , oh , he's like I want you to be the face of the company . It shouldn't be a 60 year old man . It should be a young woman he wanted a woman revolutionary .

Speaker 3 30:17

He wanted a woman to drive , because that would give him a face of like oh we have our first woman driver .

Speaker 1 30:23

Yeah , it's a new sense of notoriety .

Speaker 3 30:27

It's a little , yeah , like it's mildly political and it's going to be , picked up . It's a sense of wokeness , like it's going to be picked up on networks and give him FaceTime .

Speaker 1 30:35

For sure , it's just a new publicity route .

Speaker 3 30:37

We're going to have you drive with this PlayStation controller . I sure it's just a new publicity route . I'm gonna have you drive with this playstation controller . I know that in itself , uh , just the . I mean I don't know if it worked or not , but just the . The view of it , how it looks , should be like yeah , how about we don't have a playstation controller for something somebody pays 250 grand for ? Go two and a half miles below the surface .

Speaker 2 30:56

Right .

Speaker 3 30:56

I don't know that . Yeah , he the way , his posture , his demeanor , his facial expressions I'm not body language expert , but I'm also not blind . He had the posture of someone who had something to prove , always like defensive yeah , just , you really can't cover insecurity , and he just had an aura of it . And what everybody says about him working for him , it just all lines up .

Speaker 2 31:37

Yeah .

Speaker 3 31:37

And it just seemed like it becomes a cult where , like , if everybody's saying the same thing or supporting this , you're kind of like am I going nuts ?

Speaker 1 31:44

yeah , like wait , am I wrong ?

Speaker 3 31:46

yeah , it's gaslighting where it's like . You know , in the one on hbo she was like saying to the guy I'm I'm really concerned about the whole and they're like , we know , we're really concerned about you yes , we don't think you're innovative yeah , and she was like well , maybe it is me if I were , I would have said innovative bitch like this isn't art

Speaker 2 32:05

right , like you don't like science . Think outside the box .

Speaker 3 32:08

No it's like carbon fiber . It has never been approved and this whole thing like why was it not tested without people ?

Speaker 1 32:15

let me ask you this because you're more like in the know . Let me ask you this because you're more like in the know has his wife , have her ? Has she been to like the hearings ? Has she been interviewed ? Has anything of hers been released ? Because I would love to know what the hell she's got to say .

Speaker 3 32:30

I did look that up and no , she's kept a very low profile .

Speaker 1 32:32

Right , Because I was . I Googled it and I was like , well , maybe my Google searches and also I was kind of like rushing . But I would love to know what this lady has to say , Because , was she , did she believe in this so much and believe in him so much that she just went along with it ? Is she as delusional ? Is she as crazy ? Did she like ? What's her angle in this ?

Speaker 3 32:57

Well .

Speaker 1 32:59

Also , she knew the dangers . Or did she not care about the dangers as well ? You know like what .

Speaker 3 33:03

So the first answer ? Um , so the first answer . She's kept a very low profile and she hasn't commented at all because , like , because they haven't reached a conclusion for the hearings .

Speaker 2 33:12

Right .

Speaker 3 33:12

Um , so I think her and ocean gate are just not saying anything right . Uh , which saying anything right ? Which is what you smart right , yeah from a legal perspective . Um , she was the one . Have you seen the video where they say here is when they heard the implosion ?

Speaker 1 33:27

yeah , she hears it and then she kind of like that was her .

Speaker 3 33:29

Did you know that was her okay like I didn't know that till recently , like that's like her and another which is ironic .

Speaker 1 33:35

They looked at each other and she was like what was that ?

Speaker 2 33:36

yeah , she was like what was that ?

Speaker 1 33:38

Yeah , she was like what was that ? It's like that was your husband dying . Did you like not realize ? Did she not realize it ?

Speaker 3 33:43

Not at the time . No , it was just a , I mean like it probably wasn't the first crack , but well .

Speaker 1 33:47

I mean , but that wasn't a crack , that was a different .

Speaker 3 33:49

Yeah , oh yeah , the ocean , because I heard something 900 miles away .

Speaker 1 34:07

I don't know how sound travels underwater , but something about , uh , somebody picked up the implosion sound 900 miles away . Right , so it does travel or something .

Speaker 3 34:11

Yeah , um that I don't know what , what , exactly how . They heard it , that clip of when it happened in real time and she's on the walkie talkie and they said something about drop weights yeah and then a radio message came in , but that radio message was actually before the implosion .

Speaker 1 34:25

It just traveled slower . Yeah , because it just took slower . So she thought , I guess she thought all was well , yeah , yeah .

Speaker 3 34:33

Like she was smirking . Yeah , I have no idea what she's getting her .

Speaker 1 34:39

What is she thinking ? All this Because she did lose her husband .

Speaker 3 34:44

Yeah .

Speaker 1 34:45

But it's like they all ignored the signs of it .

Speaker 3 34:52

They don't really even talk about her much in both documentaries .

Speaker 1 34:55

I know , I suspect , I'm sure it was by design it's probably a legal thing too . Yeah .

Speaker 3 35:01

If you talk about me or my family , we can sue or something she comes from . Well , so , like I'm sure they know about lawyers , you know I mean do you remember that quote from I forget who ?

Speaker 1 35:11

oh wait , tony neeson said it . When they fired david lockridge he , stockton , told neeson he was like that he doesn't mind spending fifty thousand dollars to ruin someone's life and that when he said that to him it like sent a chill up his spine and he was like , oh shit , like this guy's fucking nuts it was the words which were rough , but also just the it's , the callousness .

Speaker 3 35:34

Yeah , it was his demeanor that got him .

Speaker 1 35:35

I think I don't care like who gives a fuck .

Speaker 3 35:36

Yeah , what exactly did he mean by that ? I don't .

Speaker 1 35:37

Yeah , it was his demeanor that got him . I think , like I don't care , like who gives a fuck .

Speaker 3 35:40

Yeah , what exactly did he mean by that ? I don't mind spending 50 . So it ?

Speaker 1 35:43

was when David Lockridge was

Comparing Titanic and Titan Disasters

Speaker 1 35:46

saying he was gonna kind of go public about it yeah . And so he was like he's like I'm gonna discredit him before he can discredit this project . Oh God yeah no-transcript .

Speaker 3 36:22

Some good people who were on the project , who stuck to their principles yeah and just had to go . So like the truth is is there were a lot of warning signs . It was people just quitting yeah , like , yeah .

Speaker 1 36:35

At the end , like when everything happened , they were very like the people lots of people are like oh god , of course .

Speaker 3 36:40

Yeah , there were people who were very like the people .

Speaker 1 36:41

Lots of people are like , oh God , of course , yeah , there were people who were still on the project , but they were lower , lower level . They didn't have any more like directors of operation , director of marine ops and engineering . It was like it wasn't the people who had , you know , all this years of knowledge and that should have been attached to the project .

Speaker 3 37:01

Yeah , um , they said something about um Stockton . An interview was saying it's pretty much invulnerable and the interviewer said well , that's what they said about , uh , titanic and I , of course I get the reference , what they mean . But and where I'm going with this is kind of what we started earlier , where comparing what's worse , mm-hmm , like we know what's worse from like a tragedy standpoint Like a human life .

Speaker 2 37:32

Standpoint Right .

Speaker 3 37:33

It's just so much more human . So of course the Titanic is more tragic . But my question is what do you think is more negligent ?

Speaker 1 37:42

More well . I mean , I guess you can make a list for both of them . Titanic could be more negligent because they didn't have enough lifeboats to for all the passengers aboard , they didn't load all the lifeboats , they didn't have the proper like binoculars , or they didn't have the proper equipment to see the iceberg in time . There's a lot there , but at the same time titan , I don't know I'm I don't know .

Speaker 3 38:10

I want to say I think titan is more negligent because I'll say what I feel all right and then I'll let you and it'll fill you with more information . Okay , first off , you cite the lifeboats . Of course is valid , but in the case of titanic it would not have made a difference . True , it went beneath the water at 2 20 am and the last lifeboat was launched at 2 0 , 5 am , so they couldn't have loaded them all up anyway , so still a large amount of people were going to die . I guess you can make the argument well , there's still 16 boats on board that when the ship sinks , those boats are going to float . So you have , but then again , it's 28-degree water , the air temperature is 33 degrees .

Speaker 1 38:53

Yeah , those people didn't stand a chance on making it in the boat .

Speaker 3 38:55

If you're in the water , yeah . If you're in the water , yeah . If you're in the water even for two minutes and then get out , you can most still die .

Speaker 2 39:01

Right .

Speaker 1 39:09

So the binoculars in the crow's nest . I don't think would have made a difference . Wasn't there a story about how the person who was supposed to be , like I don't know , the lookout guy , he their like main person person ? I feel like I'm talking in like really layman terms . He was supposed to be there and then he didn't make the ship , so he didn't bring all the equipment that was necessary . Am I making this up ?

Speaker 3 39:34

um , like a lot of people make a big deal out of the fact that they were looking for icebergs with the naked eye .

Speaker 2 39:41

Yeah .

Speaker 3 39:42

And they didn't have binoculars . Well , people use binoculars as an option or as like a confirmation , as a confirmation of something . It's not for something you're just doing , because when you're scanning the horizon , they're doing it with the naked eye .

Speaker 2 39:56

Yeah .

Speaker 3 39:56

Because it's just more practical , it's a better . Wide view yeah , because it's just more practical , it's a better wide view yeah . You know what I mean . And then you use the binoculars to get more specifics , so that's kind of just yeah it doesn't really .

Speaker 3 40:09

Here's what I have as far as comparing what was more incompetent . And it's not even close Titan , because for the negligence to be comparable , thomas Andrews , who is the ship's designer of Titanic , he would have to say something of like if there are 10 compartments breached , she still stays afloat . But she sank with six flooded . It was never misadvertised . It was known that she could stay afloat with four compartments flooded . That's 220 feet of damage . So Titanic can stay afloat with 220 feet of damage . It's a very safe ship . The odds of that kind of collision are a million to one . We really look at it as really a negligent hindsight and there is some truth to it , but not nearly as bad as people think , because for the time they were doing everything that they were supposed to be doing .

Speaker 1 41:17

Yeah , it's not like we're in present day .

Speaker 3 41:19

Stockton was not doing things he was supposed to be doing . Yeah's not like we're in . Stockton was not doing things he was supposed to be doing yeah , he didn't give a fuck exactly . But titanic was doing things they were supposed to be doing , which , in hindsight , weren't good .

Speaker 1 41:27

But right and that's why we but that's why we learned , that's why we have changes .

Speaker 3 41:31

Yeah and so they had the lookouts posted . Uh , they told them about ice and they told them to look for ice . Yeah , they had these warnings on radio about icebergs . Radio then was pretty new , so , like they had these ice warnings that four or five years ago ships didn't have yet Ships weren't hitting icebergs left and right , then it common sense tells you a Berg , an iceberg , that's big enough to really cause us damage . We're gonna see in time . And that's true to an extent . But they just turned at the exact right time and it skidded the side .

Speaker 1 42:10

Had they hit it head on , it would have been fine I was gonna say that I had heard that and I was gonna ask you if that it would have damaged the fuck out of it , but it would not have sank .

Speaker 3 42:18

It would not have sank had it not been such a calm night . They might have seen the iceberg much sooner , because you see waves when there's wind Hitting the iceberg . Like they aren't looking for the berg itself . What they're looking for is the change in pattern of waves . He did mention that in the movie when he's on the bridge with the captain . Yeah , it's probably why you would call it and uh like the iceberg itself .

Speaker 3 42:45

I mean again . What I'm saying is like 10 , 15 separate things when put together make that night a perfect night for disaster . If you take away one of those things , it's fine .

Speaker 2 42:56

Right .

Speaker 3 42:57

So it was just a perfect storm . Yeah , things it's fine . Right , so it was just a perfect storm . Yeah , um , the iceberg itself was a rareberg . It was like a blueberg is what they call it at sea , like a blackberg . Um , it's a iceberg that has recently turned over in the water , so it's gone turtle in the water , so you have clear ice in the middle and not the white snowy thing . Right , like that we picture , yeah , you know , like like the polar bears romping around on and at night , pretty invisible , right , um , like the way it was cold in the flat calm it made it hard to tell , like the horizon , and I don't know the physics of it , but I heard someone explain it where it would be . The same thing of when it's a hot day and you're driving on the road and you see what looks like water on the pavement dead ahead mirage yeah that had something to do with as well okay , it was just yeah , um , so it shouldn't have sink .

Speaker 2 43:51

It would not sink in most in most scenarios titan was going to implode that was going to happen , no matter what . It was just a matter of when .

Speaker 3 44:00

So that's my angle as far as what's more negligent . Yeah , Now , Titanic did have some warnings from other ships about ice . It did like a lot of people don't know this . It did take a misdirection and the captain veered a 20 miles south , so he did change his course .

Speaker 1 44:20

And then also he was going faster so that he could make a better time , thank you , they were going too fast .

Speaker 3 44:29

That's the with the argument I'm making . That's the biggest strike someone would have on me . Like the speed they were going . It still was normal in those times . But if they had he seen all the ice warnings he didn't see them all then I think he would have slowed it down .

Speaker 2 44:46

Right .

Speaker 3 44:48

Had a Murdoch not stopped and he did a hard starboard , which is left , and then he stopped and reversed the engines . That made the rudder far less effective , how they kept going full speed and just went hard to starboard like they probably would have missed it .

Speaker 1 45:06

Clearly titan is more negligent , I think yeah yeah it absolutely is I mean I would , yeah , I would agree with that , because it that was going , this disaster was going to happen , no matter what . It's just a matter of when it was going to happen and who was going . This disaster was going to happen , no matter what . It's just a matter of when it was going to happen and who was going to be on it .

Speaker 3 45:24

Like , as far as he should have stopped it immediately .

Speaker 1 45:27

He should have stopped it years , years prior yeah , um , oh , he's hard-headed .

Speaker 3 45:33

Yeah , um , people , he just didn't listen to reason yeah , because he was driven by his own ego .

Speaker 1 45:40

Yeah , he was blind and Do you think it was the fame that made him blind , or you think it was his own ego , that he just needed to be right ? I have to be right , I have to be right .

Speaker 3 45:51

He had dug himself in a hole , of having to be right that he was in too deep to where , if he dug out , he would look like a failure yeah and all that press he had done and all the claims he had made and the money he invested yeah he couldn't because he was being cheap with certain things , where he talked about a certain cost , very cheap , like a parent . Well , yeah , I think that might be kind of the thing . Uh , steel and titanium are apparently much more expensive .

Speaker 1 46:17

Yeah , and they mentioned . They said you would need a bigger ship to .

Speaker 3 46:20

It costs a lot more to ship it because it weighs so much more .

Speaker 1 46:22

Yeah , so and they would need different kind of machinery to even just put it in the water .

Speaker 3 46:27

It's just dude . If you're going two and a half miles below the ocean like more , a convenience should not really be on your top three list , right .

Speaker 2 46:40

Convenience yeah .

Speaker 3 46:42

Like it's not , it's , you're going to kill people .

Speaker 1 46:46

Like it's risky down there . Yeah , of course it's risky .

Speaker 3 46:49

The more we unpack him , the more I think he definitely had . I don't know if it was suicidal or blind psycho , but he surely he was . I mean , you know , he went to school , he did engineering .

Speaker 1 47:01

Yeah , but they did say he wasn't the best student .

Speaker 3 47:03

Yeah , yeah , they showed his report card .

Speaker 1 47:05

And I think that bugged him too , is that like ? He wasn't the best , he wasn't valedictorian , you know Like . I think that bothered him as well .

Speaker 3 47:17

I was part of an online Titanic society group . I was part of an online Titanic society group . I was in college . I was part of Titanic Historical Society .

Speaker 1 47:26

What years are these ? This is 2005 .

Speaker 3 47:30

Okay and so . Yeah , it was like a message boards , which they still have , but it was much more simple in those days and I was the moderator on some Titanic groups . Emily , it's a bunch of virgins , it's a bunch of Titanic nerds . I mean , I'll cut through it

Michael's Titanic Message Board Days

Speaker 3 47:55

here . Hi , I'm Michael , I'm here .

Speaker 1 47:59

You didn't need to out yourself like that .

Speaker 3 48:02

I was gone for a little bit . I was the moderator on message boards and it was just like we all had , like it was just a bunch of people who wanted to talk about Titanic but that's what the message boards are about but it was like a job that you're not getting paid for , but you're getting paid . You know you're getting paid with a camaraderie .

Speaker 2 48:24

Yeah .

Speaker 3 48:25

Over the computer .

Speaker 1 48:27

You had parasocial relationships with other Titanic lovers .

Speaker 3 48:31

And you learn things Cause I , you learn things , so we all help each other out . Like I might have a question , you know , and that I wasn't sure I was like . You know , like when box hall went down to the mail room , was it really 14 feet above keel ? You know they're like . No , I was 12 . I mean , dude , like there's levels yeah shit like there's no way .

Speaker 1 48:47

Then there's like like like I said , I knew you were gonna come way more prepared than I was so I .

Speaker 3 48:53

That's why I was like oh crap , um , anyways so like I'll read how I want to say this as much of a dork as I am , as much as know , somebody out there always knows more . My username was Fred Fleet 32 . Frederick Fleet was the guy who spotted the iceberg , iceberg right ahead .

Speaker 3 49:11

He ended up killing himself when he was older and my other username was Iceberg Boss . Like we would like Happy Wednesday . Everybody Like what's on the menu for tonight and we knew what was on the first class dining room menu . So it's almost like we're saying , oh I'm hungry for some , but I'm hungry for some , and uh , what was ? What was it ?

Speaker 1 49:35

um , I was gonna say what was on the menu .

Speaker 3 49:37

Yeah , well , I wrote uh , a good evening , old man . Like that's an old Brit term , so you know we got to keep it .

Speaker 1 49:46

Yeah , keep it authentic In those days too .

Speaker 3 49:47

Yeah , it's kind of like those old plays when they're like the Declaration of Independence . It's like I'm Ben Franklin , you have like your wig , you know . Except I'm 23 here , not 10 . So good evening , old man . On the menu tonight is grilled mutton chops , mashed , fried and baker jack potatoes and Victoria pudding . God , there's great food on Titanic , Does that sound ?

Speaker 1 50:13

like a meal you'd want to eat . Oh yeah , that sounds terrible to me . Well .

Speaker 3 50:17

I mean , like that was one of many but I'm also being accurate here . I believe I believe you . Oh , that was on an entree um the first class dining room , which was , I think , on e-deck anyways . Um , somebody would join in on the message board and say pass the pass the veneer and gram rolls , you know , because that was something . And I would say like , like they called me a troll and I call you a troll yeah , but this to them was trolling .

Speaker 3 50:46

Okay , I don't think it's that rude . That's why it's funny they take it so seriously and I'd say beef , stew and hash and somebody would type third class . What's a steers passenger doing in here ? You know ?

Speaker 1 50:58

um , you're right , it was a bunch of virgins on the computer I think so .

Speaker 3 51:02

Yeah , that's just , I didn't see him , but I have a visual yeah , I can picture but it's kind of funny . I was like pretty swollen jacked at 23 and like I'm the football player , right , I was homecoming king , you know . So that's kind of like a guilty pleasure , like it's kind of like porn . It's like what is he doing his spare time ? Like ?

Speaker 3 51:20

I caught you like I wasn't doing anything . Well , like I'm looking up scores , who won the game ? Oh no , yeah , that no , I just realized like it wasn't like I , I didn't share it with people I think not many people knew . Well , no , they knew about titanic , but they didn't know I was like you're like passion , yeah , this yeah , um then , I troll as iceberg boss because people didn't know it was you . Well , well , like I had two yeah , handles two usernames , emily , come on .

Speaker 3 51:55

I mean , I kind of had access cause I uh , I moderated message boards , two of them , where people are like hey , hey , hey , I'm going to block you from this , you can't be cussing like that , and I'm like what the fuck , who the fuck are you ? Oh my God , as Iceberg Boss , I would come in to like a party in third class because it had like different events , but they had to be real things , oh , okay .

Speaker 3 52:24

And what's the band playing ? And it had to be like what was the band playing ? Or what was on the menu , what were the appetizers ? Or like if someone saw oh , like I saw Murdoch strolling by . Like no , he's not on duty right now .

Speaker 1 52:34

Oh my God . So it's like these people are playing like sims , almost with a real life event .

Speaker 3 52:46

Yeah , they're larping but on the computer . What did they sing at mass on sunday ? It was uh for those in peril at the sea .

Speaker 1 52:53

You know like I saw that in the movie they did .

Speaker 3 52:56

yeah , they oh , oh , yeah , no , uh , they were singing it , it was that song , but but I don't think You're like wrong day bitch .

Speaker 1 53:03

I don't think they saw .

Speaker 2 53:04

Perils of the Sea .

Speaker 3 53:07

I kind of got defensive there , saying no , you don't , I did it's like you were 23 again . No , I'm mature now . We got good stuff , don't we ?

Speaker 2 53:20

Yeah .

Speaker 3 53:24

Has any girl made you laugh ?

Speaker 1 53:25

like this Huh , has any girl made you laugh like this ? Huh , has any girl made you ?

Speaker 3 53:28

laugh like this .

Speaker 1 53:28

I mean , yeah , I laugh all I mean , but why do I ask that ? I feel like I just hurt your feelings . That competitiveness like that was super competitive , I see , yeah yeah , but no , that's bad right .

Speaker 3 53:36

Like , especially like you know . Like ,

Embarrassing Gremlin Stories

Speaker 3 53:39

like , instead of going out and I didn't- know , no wonder I didn't get any action in college . I didn't go out .

Speaker 1 53:48

You could have went to a bar instead , or a college party , a sorority party , a football party .

Speaker 3 53:53

I was on the team , I was good .

Speaker 1 53:56

They're like where's Michael ? I don't know , all right . So I always ask my guests to tell a gremlin story , and you had asked what that is . I told you you could have been drunk , you could have been high , you could have been sober . It's just embarrassing or funny . It's mainly just to bring us all together , that we're all people and embarrassing , and you have been chuckling about it since you got here . I don't know what it is yet .

Speaker 3 54:30

I can't imagine because I can't imagine I'll try to focus and make it like as clean and direct as possible , without me veering off and doing what I do . I first moved out here . I was a boxer . I was in a pro boxing camp . We lived in Marina del Rey . We trained in Carson . When I was living at these apartments there's a girl , she worked at the leasing office and her and I started talking and we went on Long story short . I got pretty attached , but it's not like we were even really talking that long . Or even boyfriend , girlfriend , um , like three dates hooked up a couple times , uh it was cool like .

Speaker 1 55:10

So it was like casual dating yes for her .

Speaker 3 55:13

Yes , okay , um , uh , we went to like basketball games and um went out to eat and uh , anyways , I liked her . Um , she , she comes by one night . Well , she comes by one night . And this is where , like you know , I I was talking about if I were a dog , a husky , okay you know , maybe a little dramatic yeah um , I think she planned on it being kind of like brief .

Speaker 1 55:42

Like you and her Like it being a fling .

Speaker 3 55:44

No , what she came to do . Oh , she came by to just say she can't really hang out anymore .

Speaker 2 55:50

Okay .

Speaker 3 55:51

Still wants to be friends and she still works there , but she can't be . We can't be like going out and be hooking up .

Speaker 2 55:57

Yeah .

Speaker 3 56:02

Which having twice like , but in my mind what's happened 100 times ? In my mind because I relive it okay . Yeah , that's the embarrassing part . I was kidding anyways , anyways . But so she came by just to tell me that .

Speaker 3 56:14

But it kind of got drawn out to an hour because I was just like devastated okay like gutted yeah um , but I just , but I just gave you the facts and I see your face when I'm saying , gutted , like yeah , okay , like that's successive right and um , um , so it was time for her to go and I was like let's walk her out the door . And I was like , and I , I think I offered her a drink or what I was like , and she was like , oh , like made a noise , like , oh , like she was like feeling bad . Yeah , I broke down , she walks out . I I chase her outside like think like helen hunk , tom helen hunt , tom hanks , and cast away you know like what was his name Runs out in the rain .

Speaker 1 57:02

Yeah , I know yeah , and she's like chasing him down the driveway .

Speaker 3 57:05

Which is a little more justified than me .

Speaker 1 57:11

Than your situation .

Speaker 3 57:12

And she's also a girl and I was a heavyweight boxer , male , still male , and I'm running out towards her , emily , and then I start jogging , like I'm like no , her name's not , like not . And then , uh , I see her , like , as I'm coming towards you , like looking around , like oh god like yeah , I hug her and whisper like I I love you and I hear , hear , okay , michael .

Speaker 1 57:41

Yeah , there's not really a better response other than that . Okay , Michael .

Speaker 3 57:44

Almost like okay , you little fucking Like she just patted you on the head and said it's time to go . Okay , I'm like I'm so uncomfortable now . Oh for sure , was her subtext .

Speaker 2 57:54

Yes .

Speaker 3 57:55

But that's not the embarrassing part . Oh , I was new to Facebook . Oh God , heart . Oh , um , I was new to facebook . Oh god , I was new to facebook and um , I was uh brand . I just got facebook , maybe like a couple months later or something , and I was late to facebook . Why do I keep saying that ? Because I'm not .

Speaker 1 58:15

I wasn't really good at it , I wasn't well coordinated in it , so that is valid okay I thought I was searching for her name oh my god , I feel like I know what you're gonna say but when the status update ?

Speaker 3 58:26

so what's on your mind , michael ? And let's just say her name is emily hogan . It was like you just kept typing in the name I typed in the name and then in my mind , I hit search and you hit submit and you posted it . Yeah and then I'm like what the fuck just happened ?

Speaker 3 58:39

and then I so , I , oh , and then I found the search box right having forgotten that I just posted the status update and so um , she was just scared I god she didn't yeah um no , she wasn't like scared , because she wasn't , you know , because I was a softy , but she was like I , I don't know , I don't know like I can tell you what my thoughts would have been .

Speaker 1 59:06

Yeah , go , I would have thought what's on ?

Speaker 3 59:08

your mind , emily hogan like this guy . He went on two dates with I would have blocked you .

Speaker 1 59:14

It's possible . I would have switched my jobs to like a different leasing office . I would have been like I need to cut ties with this guy because he's a little obsessive . That's what I would have thought . Not , I know you now but I didn't do that . It was by mistake , though yeah , no and I know you now , but I'm saying if I was her back then on two dates , I would have been like this guy is going to be like a future Joe Goldberg from you . Did you ever watch that show you ?

Speaker 3 59:42

Uh you , this isn't the first time you've accused me of the you . This is the first time you've accused me of the you . That's a keeper . So yeah , I'm aware of it only because you mentioned it to me a few years back . So , yeah , I'm aware of it only because you mentioned to me .

Speaker 1 1:00:02

A few years back did you tell me a similar story what's that ? Did you tell me a similar story ?

Speaker 3 1:00:08

who knows , emily , I think , um , no , I think you may have just been commenting on my recent behavior . Yeah , I'm sorry , no , but anyways , uh , you know what ? What was ?

Speaker 1 1:00:27

the aftermath of this whole thing . After you put , when you posted it , how long did it take for you to take it down ?

Speaker 3 1:00:33

I think I heard that she was laughing her ass off the next day when she heard I I made a mistake , so it was you know okay like , like for like she , I think she saw me as just um what I was like a puppy dog new , uh , yeah , just not in many relationships , uh and just in uh , she had like this perception of indiana , like like she thought I grew up on a farm and I didn't but so she saw me as like even more naive than I was .

Speaker 1 1:01:03

And you're like big and new in the city .

Speaker 3 1:01:05

I actually was naive , but she saw me even more than that . So in her mind , which is why she thought the Facebook thing was funny .

Speaker 2 1:01:11

Right .

Speaker 3 1:01:13

But it's also kind of an insult to me because I should know better because I didn't grow up on a farm . So it just keeps coming back to like , yeah , like there's no scenario where I look good .

Speaker 1 1:01:23

That's why it's a gremlin story . Yeah , you , you don't end up looking . You're not your best self . At the end of the day , it's just a story where you're like well , shit I think , that was that well , yeah , a narcissist will .

Speaker 3 1:01:36

So a narcissist will never have a gremlin story .

Speaker 1 1:01:38

It'll always be like them being a hero they , yeah , they are , because usually they don't like to lose control . Nope , nope . And gremlins lose control , not on a consistent basis , but enough times where they can talk about it on the podcast .

Speaker 3 1:01:55

And I'll give another one that's embarrassing and quicker . I was at a college party . I played football in Kentucky and for fall break I went to my best friend's college in Indiana . It was DePaul University In 2004, . It was like 30 grand a year . It's a rich boy's place . I went to a frat party there and there was this girl I was talking to , but I didn't see her and I was getting wasted , which is rare . But I was getting wasted , and so this is where the drunk part lies in . It was a narrow hallway .

Speaker 2 1:02:33

Okay .

Speaker 3 1:02:35

So narrow that I thought if I was on the ground like my feet could touch . Oh you know , and she was walking towards us and I'm just drinking with my friends and like , if you're my friends , you know we're sitting here talking and for like , like , I'll say from my perspective what I was thinking .

Speaker 2 1:02:58

Yeah .

Speaker 3 1:02:59

And then I'll say probably what they were thinking Mm-hmm , which order is funnier ?

Speaker 1 1:03:04

I want to know what yours is , mine first , yeah .

Speaker 3 1:03:06

I was thinking , oh , she's coming this way , she might see just this big guy , but I want to show that I'm athletic and coordinated .

Speaker 2 1:03:15

Okay .

Speaker 3 1:03:17

Which is weird , but also okay .

Speaker 1 1:03:20

Also , when you're drunk , you're not athletic and coordinated .

Speaker 3 1:03:23

Yeah , or in this case , the hallway wasn't short enough .

Speaker 2 1:03:29

Yeah .

Speaker 3 1:03:30

I thought I was going to jump into a Spider-Man . Oh , and like Bam no , like Go yeah because hallway , hallway , and I thought I was tall enough . It was a narrow , you know , like a dorm hallway . Yeah .

Speaker 2 1:03:41

I thought I was tall enough . It was a narrow , you know , like a dorm hallway .

Speaker 3 1:03:42

Yeah , um , I thought I was narrow , I thought I would be tall enough for my feet to touch , my hands to touch and I would just sit there and look oh my god like a gymnast so you're in the sitting position , so my goal is to look like a gymnast for a girl . That's just funny in itself , and I failed at that because I just landed on my fucking I was gonna say you just tailbone , yeah , you just fell .

Speaker 1 1:04:01

So you just jumped in the air and fell on your ass from their perspective .

Speaker 3 1:04:04

I see her coming like guys bam , and I made this face according to them , which is like I mean it could have been worse . My tailbone it was bad , but like I have thick glutes , so I have thick glutes , so that sounds funny . No , but my butt helped .

Speaker 1 1:04:22

Yeah , okay .

Speaker 3 1:04:23

I was squatting a lot that summer , so sturdy spine Just did that , yeah , and so that , yeah , she didn't . She wasn't impressed I think she just walked over me Because I'm on the ground like well , yeah , I mean unless she's going nurse you .

Speaker 1 1:04:47

Yeah , she didn't ask if you , okay , yeah , she could have been like , oh my god , are you okay ?

Speaker 3 1:04:49

and you know she probably saw him . He's like this fucking psycho . That's weird . Yeah , I'm gonna go join my friends over there , yeah , yeah , he's trying to like commit suicide to his lumbar .

Speaker 1 1:04:53

Yeah , I don't think she was able to probably process what you just did yeah because or maybe she would I really want .

Speaker 3 1:05:00

I want the truth to be . If you asked her then that night she would have been like who ?

Speaker 1 1:05:05

Yeah , like she didn't remember .

Speaker 3 1:05:07

Yeah , which is really a life lesson . It's a spotlight effect . No one's analyzing you as much as you're analyzing yourself .

Speaker 1 1:05:15

Oh yeah .

Speaker 3 1:05:15

But in the case of this , I'm not saying that's not worth analyzing . I'm sure people noticed it . Well , that's something they do notice like don't like what did I try to do there ?

Speaker 1 1:05:29

I try to do something and then I corrected myself yeah , that was funny , that was a good one . Well , yeah , and you gave us two perfect yay badass badass . No one's giving me two gremlin stories before . I haven't even said two gremlin stories before .

Speaker 3 1:05:42

Which one did you like better ? I kind of gave three , in a way , because the breakup with her and the Facebook status update , and then the dorm tailbone . That's true . Yeah , yeah , yeah .

Speaker 1 1:05:55

I'm going to use both , so it doesn't matter which one I like better .

Speaker 3 1:05:57

Sweet .

Speaker 1 1:05:58

I'm not picking and choosing , so it doesn't matter which one I like . Better Sweet , I'm not picking and choosing . Both are going up there , so that's pretty much the episode Two Gremlin stories later Do you have any socials that you want to give out to the peoples ?

Speaker 3 1:06:10

I do improv at the West Side Comedy Theater in Santa Monica . I'm on a team that performs there Monday nights . We only have one more show left and then we have to do another residency , but our team is called Manta Sonica . Monday nights , we only have one more show left and then we have to do another residency , but our team is called Manta Sonica , okay . You know what that means ? Nope , santa Monica , just switch it . Ah , so clever , yeah , that's cool and yeah , so that's what I would plug .

Speaker 1 1:06:33

That's what you're plugging . What about ? Do you have any

Wrap-up and Contact Information

Speaker 1 1:06:35

like Instagram or TikToks that you want people to know about ?

Speaker 3 1:06:37

No yeah .

Speaker 1 1:06:38

All right , and if you want to follow the podcast , you can follow on Instagram and TikTok Emily to Gremlin Pod . If you want to submit your own gremlin stories to make Michael feel better about his , you can email the podcast at emilytogremlinpod at gmailcom . And if you want to watch this episode in all its glory , go on YouTube . Emily to gremlin pod . It's the same all the way around and yeah , like , follow , share , tell your friends and yeah , that's pretty much it I forgot .

Speaker 3 1:07:14

Yeah , go ahead say my instagram .

Speaker 1 1:07:16

Uh , it's at mikey Huddy there you go yeah , mikey the Huddy on Instagram and TikTok yes okay , there you go , and then go follow him too , and yeah , see what the content he puts out there yeah yeah , all right , michael , let's cheers out . Thank you for coming . Thank you for being a nerd with me . Cheers . Nerd coming . Thank you for being a nerd with me , cheers .